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June 7, 2002

Host: Michael Grant
Topic: The Journalists Roundtable
In-Studio Guests:
Howard Fisher, Capitol Media Services;
Robbie Sherwood, The Arizona Republic;
Barrett Marson, East Valley Tribune

>> Michael: IT'S FRIDAY, JUNE 7, 2002. IN THE HEADLINES THIS WEEK, THE COLORADO RIVER TRIBE FILED THE FIRST OF THREE EXPECTED BALLOT INITIATIVES ON INDIAN GAMING. GOVERNOR HULL ALLOWED THE RECENTLY-PASSED BUDGET TO TAKE EFFECT, HOWEVER, SHE REFUSED TO TAKE SIGN IT AND MESA NOW HAS TO DECIDE WHETHER IT WILL PURSUE THE ARIZONA CARDINALS NEW FOOTBALL STADIUM OR PUNT ON THAT ISSUE. GOOD EVENING. I'M MICHAEL GRANT. THIS IS THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE. JOINING ME IN THE STUDIO TO TALK ABOUT THESE AND OTHER ISSUES IS HOWIE FISCHER OF CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES. ROBBIE SHERWOOD FROM THE "ARIZONA REPUBLIC." AND BARRETT MARSON FROM THE EAST VALLEY TRIBUNE. THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF ACTIVITY AT THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE THIS WEEK AS PETITION SIGNATURES FOR THE UPCOMING ELECTION WERE FILED. ONE OF THE FILING, THE COLORADO RIVER INDIAN TRIBE. HOWIE, WHAT DID THE TRIBE HAVE TO SAY ABOUT ITS GAMING INITIATIVE?

>> Howard Fischer: BASICALLY, THEY SAID VOTE FOR US, DON'T VOTE FOR THE OTHER TWO GUYS.

>> Michael: THEY STAKED OUT PROP 200, RIGHT? THERE HAS TO BE SOME VALUE IN THAT.

>> Howard: THIS IS THE FUNNY THING. WAY THE LAW IS WORDED, ANYTHING THAT IS CONSTITUTIONAL GETS A 100 SERIES NAME. ANYTHING THAT'S STATUTORY WHICH IS PLACED THERE BY INITIATIVE OR REFERENDUM GETS A 200 SERIES THEN THERE'S 300 SERIES FOR THE PAY RAISE FOR LAWMAKERS ET CETERA. IF YOU FILE FIRST AND IF YOU QUALIFY, YOU GET 200. NOW, IS THAT IMPORTANT? IT IS THE FIRST ONE ON THE BALLOT AND SINCE THERE WILL BE TWO MORE THERE PLUS WE'LL HAVE THE ARIZONA LOTTERY ON THE BALLOT ALSO, I THINK IT BECOMES AN ISSUE. THE OTHER POINT ABOUT FILING NOW IS IT BEATS THE RUSH. THE DEADLINE FOR ALL THE CAMPAIGNS IS JULY 4th TO GET 101,000 SIGNATURES IN. IN THE DAYS BEFORE JULY 4th, THE COALITION OF 17 TRIBES WILL BE FILING THEIR INITIATIVE, THE TRACKS WILL BE FILING THEIR INITIATIVE SO THIS WAY, THEY GOT OUT THERE. THEY GOT THEIR OWN STORY, THEIR OWN PICTURE AND THE WHOLE ROUTINE. THEY NEED TO SEPARATE OUT WHAT THEY'RE DOING PARTICULARLY FROM WHAT THE OTHER TRIBES ARE DOING. THEIR PROPOSAL IS MUCH BROADER THAN WHAT THE OTHER TRIBE IS DOING WHICH IS SIMILAR TO WHAT THE GOVERNOR NEGOTIATED BECAUSE ON ONE HAND, IT HAS LESS REVENUE FOR THE STATE. IT IS 3% OF NET REVENUES AFTER EXPENSES. GENERALLY, THEY SAY ABOUT $15 MILLION A YEAR. WHAT IT DOES IS IT ALLOWS MUCH MORE GAMING THAN WE CURRENTLY ALLOW, FIRST IN TERMS OF EXPANDING THE NUMBER OF MACHINES IT, SAYS THE TRIBE CONDUCTING AN ECONOMIC IMPACT STUDY AND SAYS WE CAN USE MORE MACHINES, WE GET MORE MACHINES BUT IT ALSO ALLOWS CRAPS AND ROULETTE WHICH ARE NOT ALLOWED NOW.

>> Michael: I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY THE KEY FROM A GAMING STANDPOINT, THE KEY DISTINGUISHING CHARACTERISTIC BETWEEN IT AND THE OTHER TWO IS IT NOT ONLY PICKS UP BLACKJACK BUT OTHER TABLE GAMES.

>> Howard: WHEN YOU START SEEING THE VERY EXPENSIVE ADS, IT WILL BE $5 TO $6 MILLION PER CAMPAIGN, IT WILL BE HOW THEY DIFFERENTIATE THEMSELVES BETWEEN THE OTHER INDIAN INITIATIVES. I WOULD HAVE SOME VIDEO OF A LINE OF PEOPLE WAITING TO GET TO A SLOT MACHINE, PULLING ONCE, HAVING TO GO TO THE BACK OF THE LINE SAYING DON'T YOU TELL ANY OTHER BUSINESS HOW MANY DEVICES, HOW MANY THINGS THEY CAN SELL. WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO SELL THAT TO INDIANS.

>> Barrett Marson: THE 17 TRIBES, CAN'T THEY ALSO USE THAT, WE'RE GIVING MORE MONEY. WE'RE LIMITING GAMBLING. WON'T THEY BE ABLE TO USE THAT TO SHOW THEY'RE THE RESPONSIBLE PARTY?

>> Howard: THAT BECOMES THE ISSUE. THEY'RE GOING TO SAY WE SAT DOWN FOR TWO YEARS AND NEGOTIATED THIS WITH GOVERNOR JANE HULL. WE HAVE A MUCH MORE MONEY. WE HAVE A MUCH BROADER INTEREST. FOLKS WILL BE OFFENDED. FOR EXAMPLE THE COLORADO RIVER INDIAN TRIBE, ESSENTIALLY THE MONEY GOES TO SCHOLARSHIPS WHICH IS VERY POPULAR AND HEALTHCARE FOR THE ELDERLY. THE PROPOSAL BY THE 17 TRIBES HAS MONEY FOR TOURISM, MONEY FOR EDUCATION AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

>> Robbie Sherwood: WHAT KIND OF ROLE DOES GOVERNOR JANE HULL PLAY IN THIS? SHE CAME OUT WHEN THEY FILED THE SIGNATURES -- CALLING A BAD DEAL FOR ARIZONA, THE ONE THAT'S CLOSER TO WHAT SHE NEGOTIATED WILL BE THE BETTER DEAL. DO YOU THINK SHE GETS ON THE AIR AND TAKES TO THE ADS AND DOES THAT HELP?

>> Howard: LET ME TELL YOU THE FUNNY PART IS WHEN WE TALKED TO FRANCIE NOYES, THE DAY THE TRIBES FILED, SHE SAYS SHE HATES THE CLIP. IS SHE SUPPORTING THE 17 TRIBES INITIATIVE? WE HAVEN'T DECIDED THAT YET. IT WILL BE INTERESTING IF THE GOVERNOR COMES OUT NUMBER ONE. NUMBER TWO, WHAT THE TRIBES HAVE TO DECIDE IS IT GOOD OR BAD FOR THEM. DOES HAVING THE GOVERNOR OUT THERE SINCE THERE WERE A LOT OF BAD FEELING AMONG A LOT OF PEOPLE SHE HAD A, LIMITED TO THE TRIBES AND NOT TO TRACKS AND B, THAT SHE DIDN'T NEGOTIATE SOMETHING FOR DISCLOSURE OF REVENUE.

>> Robbie: THEY COULDN'T GET IT THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE AND AVOID THIS.

>> Barrett: SHE HAS A LOW POPULARITY RATING AS IT IS. SHE WAS HAMMERED BY THE RACING PEOPLE DURING THEIR CAMPAIGN.

>> Michael: ANOTHER SIGNIFICANT FILING THIS WEEK, CONCERNING THAT NEW CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT UP NORTH, THE RURAL SORT OF HORSESHOE DISTRICT, FRED DUVAL FILED ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE OF THAT ONE. REB OUR RECOLLECTION ABOUT FRED?

>> Robbie: WELL, FRED WAS A PRETTY KEY MEMBER OF THE CLINTON GANG. HE WAS HIS PROTOCOL BUT HE WAS WELL-KNOWN AROUND WASHINGTON CIRCLES. HE MOVE INTO THAT DISTRICT. HE HAD SOME ROOTS THERE. SOME FAMILY MEMBERS LIVE IN THE AREA. HE MOVED THERE WHEN THE CENTRAL PHOENIX DISTRICT THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE IDEAL FOR HIM DIDN'T WORK OUT THROUGH REDISTRICTING. HE'S BEEN ACTIVELY CAMPAIGNING UP THERE FOR QUITE A WHILE. ANNOUNCING HE'S ENTERING THE RATE IS ONE OF THOSE ANTICLIMAXES THAT WE SEE A LOT AROUND HERE BUT HE IS A GUY WITH A LOT OF CONTACTS OUTSIDE THE STATE IN WASHINGTON, D.C. HE'S HAD SOME VERY SUCCESSFUL FUND-RAISERS IN AND OUT OF THE STATE. CARES TO THE ADVANTAGE OF THE GUY WITH THE MOST MONEY. I DON'T KNOW IF HIS CLINTON HERITAGE PLAYS AS WELL IN THAT PART OF THE STATE AS IT WOULD IN CENTRAL PHOENIX.

>> Michael: OF COURSE, A FORMER BRUCE BABBITT STAFF MEMBER WHEN HE WAS GOVERNOR HERE. THAT IS AN INTERESTING PRIMARY UP THERE. IT IS ABOUT SIX WAYS AND PRETTY STRONG ON THE D SIDE. YOU HAVE STEVE DUALL AND DERRICK ROGMAN.

>> Robbie: STEVE HAS THAT LAST NAME THAT ARIZONANS ASSOCIATE WITH POLITICS. MONEY CAN'T BUY THAT. HE COMES FROM A SMALL CONSTITUENCY BASE. HE'S A CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRAT. THERE IS A NAVAJO -- A GENTLEMAN NAMED DEREK WATCHMAN WHO'S MAKING NOISE UP THERE. REPRESENTATIVE DEBRA NORRIS WHO HAS LIVED MOST OF HER LIFE IN TUCSON IS MOVING UP TO THAT DISTRICT. THERE IS MORE. THERE IS A WHOLE HOST OF REPUBLICANS ON THAT SIDE. SO, I THINK EVERYBODY SMELLED A STUDENT HERE AND SEES THEMSELVES WITH A SHOT.

>> Michael: VERY FEW SMELL AN OPPORTUNITY IN THE GUBERNATORIAL STRAW POLL OUT IN MESA THIS WEEK.

>> Robbie: YEAH, I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY WAS SURPRISED BY THIS BUT MATT SALMON WON AND HE WON BIG. HE CARRIED 88% OF THE DAY. IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT A STRAW POLL IS, THIS IS AN OLD-FASHIONED POLITICAL FUND-RAISER, ICE CREAM SOCIAL TYPE THING WHERE CANDIDATES SHOW UP. THEY PAY TO HAVE DINNER AND THEY PAY TO VOTE. AND EMPIRICALLY, WHAT THIS POLL TELLS YOU IS FIRST IT TELLS YOU THAT ALMOST EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE RACE SENSED THIS WOULD BE A MATT SALMON LOVEFEST SO THEY DIDN'T SHOW UP. THEY DIDN'T HAVE NAPOLITANO OR GUTIERREZ OR BETSEY BAYLESS. THEY ALL FOUND A REASON NOT TO BE THERE SO MATT CARRIED 88 PERCENT OF THE VOTE.

>> Howard: THE OTHER POINT BEHIND THIS IS YOU'RE ASSUMING PEOPLE WERE COMING THERE WITH THEIR MINDS OPEN. COME ON. DID YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURES? DID YOU SEE HOW MANY WE LOVE MATT SIGNS THERE WERE PREPRINTED ALREADY? THIS WAS WHO COULD PACK THE ROOM? WELL, LET'S SEE. EAST VALLEY. WHO COULD PACK THE ROOM? COULD THAT BE MATT?

>> Barrett: WHEN YOU COME TO THE GUY'S BACKYARD AND YOU HOLD A LITTLE FUND-RAISER OR POLITICAL RALLY FOR THE GUY.

>> Robbie: WHAT THIS POLL TELLS US IS IF THE ELECTION WERE HELD IN MESA AND EVERY OTHER CANDIDATE DROPPED OUT AND YOU HAD TO PAY $10 TO VOTE, MATT SALMON WOULD WIN BIG.

>> Michael: TERRY GODDARD MADE IT OFFICIAL. HE'S RUNNING FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL. IS HE GOING TO BE UNOPPOSED IN THE PRIMARY?

>> Howard: WE HAVEN'T SEEN ANY DEMOCRAT. I'LL PROBABLY GET A CALL TOMORROW BUT I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY DEMOCRAT OF NOTE THAT'S ANNOUNCED. TERRY WAS WAITING FOR A LONG TIME TO MAKE SURE THAT JANET REALLY WAS IN FACT VACATING THE OFFICE. TERRY HAS A LOT OF NAME I.D., CURIOUSLY ENOUGH MORE SO IN SOUTHERN ARIZONA THAN HERE IN THE VALLEY WHERE FOLKS MAY NOT REMEMBER HIS TIME AS THE MAYOR OF PHOENIX. THERE WILL BE SOME INTERESTING SHAKEOUTS ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE. SOME PEOPLE LIKE ROBERTSON, OBVIOUSLY JOHN GREEN. JOHN HAS A LOT OF POLITICAL ORGANIZATION THERE AS A FORMER SENATE PRESIDENT. THAT'S GOING TO BE A VERY INTERESTING AND BLOODY PRIMARY ON THE G.O.P. SIDE.

>> Michael: BARRETT, SPEAKING OF THE SENATE, JAY FILES FOR STATE SENATE.

>> Barrett: HE'S TAKEN HIM 16 YEARS AND HE'S MOVING ON TO THE SENATE. I DON'T THINK HE WILL FACE MUCH OPPOSITION IF ANY. THERE'S A NEW DISTRICT. THERE'S NO CURRENT SITTING SENATOR. HE HAS PLENTY OF MONEY.

>> Robbie: I THINK THERE'S ONE OTHER REPUBLICAN IN THERE. I APOLOGIZE BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HIS NAME. TIBSHRAENY HAS USHERED THE CITY THROUGH TREMENDOUS GROUP. SECOND ONLY TO HENDERSON, NEVADA IN RATE OF GROWTH. PEOPLE THOUGHT HE DID A PRETTY SOLID JOB. HE HAD ROADBLOCKS WITH THE CHANDLER ROUNDUP. I THINK HE'S GOT SOME GOOD TAIL WIND BEHIND HIM.

>> Barrett: HEARING A LOT OF HIGH MARKS FROM PEOPLE IN THERE WHO REALLY LIKE THE STYLE AND HE WASN'T THAT CONFRONTATIONAL. HE SEEMED TO WORK WELL.

>> Howard: YOU TALK ABOUT THE PARALLEL. OTHER RACES, I KNOW WE WERE GOING TO TALK ABOUT HAVE TO DO WITH HARRY MITCHELL. HARRY GOT IN BECAUSE IF YOU LIVED IN TEMPE, WHO'S HARRY MITCHELL? HE HAS A STATUE OF HIMSELF IN TOWN.

>> Barrett: YOU CAN BARELY TELL IT'S HARRY MITCHELL.

>> Michael: LAURA KNAPEREK IS GOING TO CHALLENGE HARRY.

>> Barrett: SHE'LL HAVE TO MARCH WITH THE GREAT PRESS SHE'S BEEN GETTING TO WAGE A WAR AGAINST HARRY. HE'S GOT INCREDIBLE -- PEOPLE REMEMBER HIM FROM HIS DECADES.

>> Robbie: KNAPEREK IS WELL-KNOWN BUT SHE COMES FROM -- HER CONSTITUENCY IS IN A PART OF THE DISTRICT THAT GOT HER RUN OUT. SHE WAS A FORMER KYRENE SCHOOL DISTRICT MEMBER WHO LOVES -- THAT AREA GOT RUN OUT. SHE'S UP IN HARRY'S TERRITORY. SHE WILL HAVE TO WORK HARD TO MAKE INROADS AGAINST HIM.

>> Barrett: THE REPUBLICANS HOLD A SLIGHT MAJORITY IN THAT DISTRICT BUT THE HARRY MITCHELL FACTOR REALLY WORKS AGAINST HER AND SHE AND SOME OF HER QUADRY OF SUPPORTERS HAVE WORKED TO YOU DRAW THE LINE AT U.S. 60 AND THAT BE THE SEPARATING LINE FOR THE DISTRICTS AND IT DIDN'T WORK OUT FOR HER.

>> Michael: REPRESENTATIVE JEFF HATCH MILLER FILES FOR CORPORATION COMMISSION. THIS WILL BE A UNIQUE YEAR.

>> Howard: THIS WILL BE A GREAT YEAR. WE'RE HAVING TROUBLES FIGURING OUT WHO'S RUNNING FOR WHICH SEATS. DO YOU HAVE THE FACT THAT JIM IRVIN'S TERM IS UP AND BECAUSE OF THE CHANGE IN THE LAW, HE ACTUALLY GETS TO RUN FOR ANOTHER TERM. ACTUALLY IT IS FOUR-YEAR TERMS NOW. ROBERTA VOSS IS RUNNING AGAINST HIM. VOTERS SAID WE WOULD LIKE A FIVE MEMBER COMMISSION. YOU HAVE TWO OPEN SEATS. PEOPLE ARE SAYING WE HAVE A TWO-YEAR SEAT AND A FOUR-YEAR SEAT. I THINK THERE'S SOME REAL POSSIBLES. I THINK THE DEMOCRATS WERE SEATED TO GET BACK IN AND WE HAVE AN ALL REPUBLICAN COMMISSION. I DON'T KNOW THAT THE POLITICAL LABELS MEAN A LOT BECAUSE I THINK THE PEOPLE THAT RUN, TEND TO RUN WITH PUBLIC FINANCING. AND B, THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT THE ONLY WAY YOU GET ELECTED AND STAY IN THE OFFICE IS IN FACT BE PROCONSUMER. SO, IT IS GOING TO BE REAL INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THAT SHAKES OUT AND WHETHER THE FACT THAT MORE REPUBLICANS -- MEANS THIS IS A FIVE REPUBLICAN COMMISSION IN NOVEMBER.

>> Michael: GOVERNOR HULL DECIDED THE FATE OF THE RECENTLY-APPROVED BUDGET THIS WEEK. ROBBIE, WHY DID SHE ALLOW IT TO TAKE EFFECT WITHOUT HER SIGNATURE?

>> Robbie: WELL, BECAUSE SHE INTENSELY DISLIKES LARGE PORTIONS OF IT BUT THERE'S NOT MUCH SHE COULD DO WITH JUST THE LINE ITEM VETO. THEY'RE WRITTEN INTO THE BUDGET IN A WAY THAT SHE WOULD HAVE TO NUKE THE WHOLE THING IN ORDER TO GET WHAT SHE WANTS. IT IS NOT THE TIME TO DO IT. SO, IN A SORT OF A PROTEST, SHE LET IT GO INTO EFFECT AND IT GIVES HER THE ABILITY IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS IF SOME OF THESE INITIATIVES TO SAVE MONEY AND TO CUT DOWN THE EXPENSE OF GOVERNMENT DON'T WORK THE WAY SHE BELIEVES THEY WON'T, SHE'LL BE ABLE TO SAY I TOLD YOU SO AND LET'S GET INTO A SPECIAL SESSION AND DO THIS THE WAY I TOLD YOU TO DO IT.

>> Michael: ROBBIE, WERE THE COMPLAINTS ANY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE'VE HEARD BEFORE IN TERMS OF REALLY THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SOME MORE SERIOUS CUTTING RATHER THAN THE GIMMICKS THAT WERE RELIED ON?

>> Robbie: WELL, YOU KNOW, SHE RAILED AGAINST THE GIMMICK BUT NOT BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T THINK IT OUGHT TO BE USED. SHE THINKS IT OUGHT TO BE USED NEXT YEAR. OR USED AS A LAST RESORT. WHAT SHE DIDN'T LIKE WAS THIS LEASE PURCHASE SCHEME FOR PAYING FOR SCHOOL INSTEAD OF USING CASH. I THINK SHE PREFERS THE TRADITIONAL REVENUE BONDING. SHE'S NOT SURE THAT WILL WORK. SHE WAS MAD THAT THEY DIDN'T PICK UP SOME OF HER IDEAS FOR INCREASING REVENUE. THERE IS THIS PREMIUM TAX THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WAS WILLING TO PAY A TAX ON INSURANCE PREMIUMS THAT OTHER INSURERS PAY. THEY SAID THEY WOULD O DO IT. IT WOULD HAVE RAISED IT TO $25, $35 MILLION. BUT IT IS A TAX INCREASE IF EVEN IF IT'S JUST THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. THE LEGISLATURE WOULDN'T TOUCH IT. SHE FEELS LIKE THERE COULD HAVE BEEN MORE MONEY.

>> Howard: SHE HAS A LOT OF LITTLE THINGS INTO IT. IT IS SORT OF FUNNY BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T ADOPT THINGS. THEY TOOK MONEY OUT OF THE GET 'EM TASK FORCE, A GANG ENFORCEMENT TASK FORCE. SAID OH, MY GOD, THIS CAN'T HAPPEN. WELL, IF YOU TELL THE LEGISLATURE WE NEED TO MAKE UP A $900 MILLION GAP BETWEEN REVENUES AND EXPENSES, THERE'S POLICY CONSIDERATIONS TAKEN PLACE. AS A FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, SHE COULD UNDERSTAND. THIS IS WHAT IT TOOK.

>> Michael: BUDGET TAKING A HIT IN THE FORM OF AN INFORMAL ATTORNEY GENERAL OPINION?

>> Howard: WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS THEY DID TO BALANCE THE BUDGET IS THEY SAID WE CANNOT AFFORD TO BUILD NEW PRISONS BECAUSE THEY COST LIKE $50 MILLION AND IT COSTS LIKE $50 SOME A DAY TO KEEP AN INMATE HOUSED. WE'LL DINK WITH THE LAW. IF YOU YOU'RE AN INMATE, FOR EVERY SIX DAYS YOU SERVE, YOU GET ONE DAY OF CREDIT. THE NEW LAW SAID WE'RE GOING TO GIVE YOU CREDIT FOR THE TIME YOU SPENT IN COUNTY JAIL BEFORE YOU WERE SENTENCED WHICH COULD BE UP TO A YEAR YOU MIGHT SPEND IN COUNTY JAIL WHILE AWAITING TRIAL AND SENTENCING.

>> Michael: YOU COULD SHORTEN YOUR SENTENCE BY A MONTH AND A HALF, TWO MONTHS.

>> Howard: WHEN YOU HAVE NEARLY 30,000 PEOPLE IN PRISON, THIS WOULD HAVE LET 700 PEOPLE OFF. EVERYONE UNDERSTOOD THE PURPOSE OF THE LAW WAS TO GET RID OF 700 PEOPLE. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE ISSUED AN INFORMAL OPINION TODAY SAYING YOU DIDN'T WRITE THE MAGIC WORD IN THERE. IT IS RETROACTIVE AND THEREFORE, WE DON'T BELIEVE YOU CAN DO THIS. RUTH SOLOMON SAID WAIT A MINUTE. THAT'S WHAT THE ENTIRE DISCUSSION GOING ON. IT DOESN'T DO ANY GOOD IN THE FUTURE.

>> Michael: START COUNTING NOW.

>> Howard: SO, WHAT TERRY IS SAYING LOOK, DEPENDING ON HOW THE CRUNCH COMES, MAYBE WE'LL SAY GEE, THIS IS NICE ADVICE. WE MAY GO OUR OWN WAY ANYWAY.

>> Michael: WE COULD BOOST REVENUES ON THE STATE LOTTERY. THAT'S WHAT AN AUDIT INDICATED THIS WEEK.

>> Barrett: SURE. CHARGE MORE FOR SOME TICKETS. FOR SOME OF THE TICKETS AND JUST -- A LOT OF US WOULD LIKE TO GET MORE MONEY BOTH TO INCREASE THE PRIZES AND INCREASE THE GENERAL FUND MONEY THAT IT GIVES TO THE HERITAGE FUND AND ALL THE OTHER ACTIVITIES THAT IT SUPPORTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

>> Howard: THERE IS A REAL INTERESTING POINT IN THIS ONE. PULL TABS. THE LOTTERY HAS NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL AT GETTING INTO BARS AND RESTAURANTS. BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO SELL THE SCRATCH TICKETS THERE. PULL TABS ESSENTIALLY DEPENDING ON WHERE THEY RUN, YOU CAN PUT UP A CARD ON THE BAR THERE AND FOR 25CREMENTS, 50 CENTS, YOU GET TO PULL AND IS IT IS AN INSTANT GAME LIKE THE SCRATCH. THEY FIGURE IT IF THEY CAN GET IN THERE, SOME POINTS HAVE 10% OF THEIR INSTANT SALE.

>> Michael: YOU LAY DOWN A QUARTER FOR THIS THEN YOU PULL SOMETHING OFF?

>> Howard: EXACTLY. THEY HAVE ALL THE FORMS IN ALL THE STATES THEN YOU'LL HAVE A LITTLE PIECE OF PAPER ROLLED UP INTO A LARGE THING AND EVERYBODY KNOWS HOW MANY WINNINGS THERE ARE IN THERE. IT BECOMES A NEW WAY OF GETTING PEOPLE TO WAGER. IT IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT. FOR A QUARTER, PEOPLE MAY SAY WELL, I'VE GOT TWO QUARTERS LEFT, GIVE ME TWO PULLS.

>> Barrett: ESPECIALLY LOTTERIES. NOT SO MUCH WITH INDIAN GAMING OR CASINOS BUT WITH LOTTERY, DECLINING ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY, THEY NEED A WAY TO REINVIGORATE THIS LOTTERY HERE TO DRAW MORE PEOPLE, MORE MONEY.

>> Robbie: PUTTING A MACHINE IN A BAR FOR 25 CENTS A POP SOUNDS ALMOST LIKE A SLOT MACHINE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT LOCKS LIKE.

>> Howard: IT IS NOT A MACHINE. BUT THAT'S ABOUT THE POINT. IT COULD BE AN EIGHT AND A HALF BY 11 CARD THAT HAS 50 LITTLE THINGS YOU PULL OFF AND THAT YOU TELL THE BARTENDER I WOULD LIKE TWO PULLS AND SHE PULLS IT OFF AND YOU PULL OFF THE THING. IT IS LIKE THE McDONALD'S GAME AND SUCH. IT SAYS YOU'VE WON 50 CENTS OR $2 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

>> Michael: HIT THE WHOPPER -- WRONG BURGER CHAIN. SORRY. GOVERNOR HULL VETOED BILLS THIS WEEK. MOST NOTABLE ONE, THE PULTE HOMES ONE?

>> Robbie: YEAH. SHE TURNED THIS BILL -- SPECIAL INTEREST LEGISLATION OUT OF PULTE HOMES, HAS A TAX BILL ABOUT $4 MILLION INCLUDES THE BILL AND INTEREST THAT THEY'VE BEEN FIGHTING IT OUT WITH THE STATE. AFTER AN AUDIT. I GUESS A COUPLE OF YEARS BACK. WHAT HAPPENED WAS THERE WAS A BILL THAT WOULD HAVE BASICALLY -- HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN IT?

>> Robbie: CHANGE THE STATUTE TO WHERE BASICALLY TO PUT THIS DISPUTE IN THE STATE'S FAVOR AND ABSOLVE PULTE OF THAT BILL. AND THE GOVERNOR KICKED IT BACK SAID THIS IS SPECIAL INTEREST LEGISLATION. WE DON'T NEED THIS. BUT IT GOES BACK FURTHER THAN THIS. STEVE MAY WHO AUTHORED THE CHANGE SAID HE WAS REALLY TRYING TO CORRECT A MISTAKE HE HAD MADE THE PREVIOUS SESSION WHEN HE FELT LIKE HE WAS HOODWINKED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE INTO CHANGING THE LAW INTO THE STATE'S FAVOR WITHOUT REALIZING WHAT IT WOULD DO, THAT IT WOULD AFFECT THE PULTE HOMES OER A SINGLE TAXPAYER THAT WAS ONGOING OVER THE DISPUTE. SO, HE FELT LIKE HE WAS TRYING TO RIGHT A WRONG THERE AND HE FELT LIKE THE GOVERNOR HURT A SINGLE TAXPAYER.

>> Michael: DOES NO ONE READ LEGISLATION ANYMORE?

>> Howard: THE PROBLEM IS IT DOESN'T MENTION PULTE HOMES. THE REAL PROBLEM IS YOU'VE SEEN THESE BILLS. THIS IS ONE OF THOSE MIND-NUMBING TAX CORRECTION BILLS THAT SAYS IF ON AN ALTERNATE FALL MOON THAT FALLS ON A TUESDAY DURING A MONTH ENDING IN Y THE TAXPAYER HASN'T REACHED AN AGREEMENT FOR FORGIVENESS OF TAXES, THE STATE MAY -- YOU CAN'T TELL WHAT IT MEANS. LOOKING EVEN AT THE FACT SHEETS THAT WERE PREPARED WITH THE BILL, IT DOESN'T MENTION WHO IS AFFECTED.

>> Michael: FINAL GOVERNOR ACTION THIS WEEK. SHE'S CALLING FOR AN AUDIT INSTEAD OF JUST A LEGISLATIVE REVIEW OF THE SCHOOL FACILITIES BOARD. TARGETED ON THE WHOLE QWEST CONTRACT, RIGHT?

>> Howard: THIS ONE IS SORT OF INTERESTING. I'M NOT SURE WHAT IT ACCOMPLISHES. WHAT WE'VE BEEN FINDING OUT IS THAT PHIL GEIGER, THE FORMER EXECUTIVE OF THE BOARD HAD ESSENTIALLY A PURCHASE ORDER WITH QWEST AND SAID WE WANT TO WIRE ALL OF THE SCHOOLS IN THE STATE FOR THE INTERNET AND WE'LL GIVE YOU A PURCHASE ORDER AND WE'LL HAVE A PURCHASE ORDER FOR $100 MILLION. THE PROBLEM IS THAT NOBODY EXACTLY DETERMINED WHAT THAT $100 MILLION BUYS THE STATE. QWEST SAYS EVERYONE UNDERSTOOD THE $100 MILLION WAS A DOWNPAYMENT. WE FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS NEEDED. WE WOULD SAY WHAT'S LEFT. WELL, WHAT'S LEFT IS ANOTHER $85 MILLION. THIS WAS A HORRIBLY EXECUTED CONTRACT. I'LL SAVE YOU THE MONEY FOR AN AUDIT. IT WAS A DUMB CONTRACT. WHOEVER ENTERED INTO IT SHOULD BE TAKEN OUT BACK AND SHOULD BE SHOT. END OF PROBLEM. SOLVE IT.

>> Michael: MESA IS NOW IN THE PROCESS OF DECIDING WHETHER TO PROCEED -- YOU GOING TO CHARGE FOR THAT ADVICE? -- WITH TRYING TO LAND THE ARIZONA CARDINALS NEW STADIUM. BARRETT, WHAT ARE THE CHANCES THERE WILL ACTUALLY BE AN ELECTION ON THIS ISSUE LATER THIS YEAR?

>> Barrett: I THINK THERE IS VERY LITTLE CHANCE THERE WILL BE AN ELECTION. IN A COUPLE THREE WEEKS, YOU'LL SEE THE TSA WITHDRAW ITS CONTRACT -- ITS OFFER TO MESA. AND THEY'LL PART WAYS AND THEY'LL END THIS UNION WHICH LASTED A LITTLE BIT LESS THAN J. LO'S MARRIAGE.

>> Robbie: I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO GLOATING ON THE EXACT SAME MEASURE TWICE IN A ROW.

>> Barrett: ONE OF THE CITY ATTORNEYS SAID THIS IS TWO SEPARATE MEASURES. WE WANT TWO SEPARATE MEASURES ON THE BALLOT. WE WANT TO VOTE TWICE ON IT.

>> Michael: WAS THAT BASICALLY WHAT -- I HAD A HARD TIME FOLLOWING WHY HE WAS SO HUNKED ABOUT THAT. DOES HE JUST WANT THE CONFUSION OF THE TWO?

>> Barrett: NOT JUST THE CONFUSION BUT THE GLORY. TRULY THE MEASURE THAT'S BEFORE VOTERS SINCE THE VALLEY BUSINESS OWNERS TURNED THEIR MEASURE IN FIRST, IT IS THEIR MEASURE. HE WANTS BOTH OF THEM SO BOTH GROUPS CAN CAMPAIGN AGAINST IT. BUT CREATING CONFUSION IS A SIDEBAR.

>> Howard: IF THIS GETS ON THE BALLOT, TELL ALL MESA VOTERS TO VOTE NO ON THE FIRST ONE AND YES ON THE SECOND ONE AND IT WOULD KEEP ATTORNEYS BUSY FOR WEEKS.

>> Michael: THE PROBLEM FROM THE TSA'S STANDPOINT IS THEY JUST SIMPLY CAN'T WAIT AROUND AND TAKE THEIR CHANCES ON SEPTEMBER 10th.

>> Barrett: ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS THAT THEY CAN'T WAIT. SEPTEMBER 10 ST. WHEN THE ELECTION WOULD BE EVEN IF IT PASSED MEANING THEY HAVE TWO DAYS TO ACTUALLY SIGN AGREEMENTS AND THAT IS GOING TO BE ONEROUS. THEY'VE GOT TO GO -- IF IT FAILS, THEY'VE GOT TO ACTUALLY MAKE SURE THAT ANY AGREEMENT THAT IT HAD WITH A BACK-UP SITE GETS IMPLEMENTED. THAT'S VERY DIFFICULT. SO, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THE TSA GO O OUT NOW AND WHAT THEY OUGHT TO DO IS GO TO ONE -- THEY OUGHT TO GO TO THE GILA RIVER INDIAN COMMUNITY AND SAY YOU KNOW WHAT OUR DEAL IS. THAT'S THE SAME DEAL WITH MESA. WOULD YOU LIKE IT? GET THAT OUT OF THE WAY.

>> Michael: FIRST, LET'S ENVISION THE STADIUM MOVING SLOWLY DOWN THE SUPERSTITION FREEWAY HEADED WEST. BEFORE IT TAKES THE LEFT TURN ON THE INTERSTATE TO HEAD TO THE GILA RIVER INDIAN RESERVATION, ANY CHANCE IT TAKES A RIGHT TURN AT TEMPE?

>> Barrett: ABSOLUTELY. IT COULD COME UP RURAL ROAD AND CITRATE ON KARSTEN OR SOME VARIATION THEREOF. MICHAEL CROWE WILL BE COMING HERE IN JULY. HE WILL BE HERE RIGHT AS THE TSA STARTS LOOKING ANEW FOR A SITE AND SO HIS THOUGHTS WILL BE -- HE WILL BE SOUGHT OUT AND TO ASK WHAT HIS THOUGHTS ARE.

>> Michael: ONE FINAL STADIUM NOTE THIS WEEK, THE COURT OF APPEALS HEARD ARGUMENTS ON THE JOHN F. LONG LAWSUIT CHALLENGING IT. WHAT WERE THE HIGHLIGHTS OR LOWLIGHTS OF THAT DEBATE?

>> Barrett: THE HIGHLIGHTS ARE THE WORST, HE'S GETTING MORE MONEY FOR THIS. THEY'RE GOING TO DRAG THIS THING OUT FOR ANOTHER TWO OR THREE MORE MONTHS. SAME ARGUMENT. IT IS NOT SPECIAL LEGISLATION BUT THE WHOLE STATE GETS TO BENEFIT FROM THIS. NOT JUST MARICOPA COUNTY. AND YOU KNOW, THE JUDGES WILL TAKE PROBABLY A FEW WEEKS TO DECIDE THE CASE. BUT YOU CAN EXPECT AN APPEAL TO THE SUPREME COURT, WHOEVER LOSES.

>> Michael: INCIDENTALLY, THE LEGISLATION THAT WAS PASSED IN THIS PAST SESSION CLEARED UP SOME --

>> Barrett: CLEARED SOME OF THE --

>> Michael: EXACTLY.

>> Barrett: AND WHETHER A SITE COULD BE SELECTED THAT WASN'T IDENTIFIED.

>> Michael: OTHER COURT DEVELOPMENTS. ANDERSEN -- THE CHECK WAS NOT ONLY IN THE MAIL, IT ARRIVED ON THE BACK OF THE SETTLEMENT.

>> Barrett: THAT WAS THE IMPORTANT THING IS IT ACTUALLY CLEARED.

>> Howard: YOU LAUGH ABOUT IT BUT THE STATE MADE SURE IT WAS A WIRE TRANSFER BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT ANY QUESTIONS. REMEMBER, BACK IN MARCH 1st, THERE WAS A BIG PRESS CONFERENCE. ANDERSEN HAS AGREED TO PAY ALL OF THIS MONEY. NOBODY BOTHERED TO LOOK AT THE BOTTOM OF PAGE SIX OF THE LINE THAT SAYS THIS IS CONDITIONAL ON APPROVAL OF THE INSURANCE COMPANY. THE THERE SHOULD THEY OWE THE INSURANCE COMPANY. ANDERSEN, LLP, ONLY OBSERVES ABOUT 5% OF THE INSURANCE COMPANY OWNED BY ANDERSEN WORLDWIDE. THAT BLEW APART THE ATTORNEY GENERAL STARTED MAKING NOISE ABOUT CRIMINAL CHARGES AND ALL OF A SUDDEN EVERYONE SAID LET'S GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL DEAL. WHAT WE HAVE A WIRE TRANSFER TO THE BALANCE OF THE TUNE OF THE $217 MILLION THEY PROMISED. THIS LETS OFF THE HOOK THE COMPANY AND ITS OFFICERS FOR ANYTHING THAT'S NOT ALREADY FILED. THE CORPORATION COMMISSION WILL NOT GO BACK. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE WILL NOT GO BACK AND IT IS THE END OF THE DEAL.

>> Barrett: THE TIME WHEN PEOPLE WILL GET SOME MONEY. NOT RIGHT AWAY BUT A FEW MONTHS DOWN THE LINE.

>> Michael: ABOUT 50 CREMENTS ON THE DOLLAR?

>> Howard: ALTHOUGH FOR THAT IT IS. YOU ALSO HAVE OTHER MONEY IN THERE IN TERMS OF THE ASSETS OWNED BY BAPTIST FOUNDATION.

>> Michael: OK. PANELISTS, THANKS FOR THE INFO. TO SEE A TRANSCRIPT OF TONIGHT'S SHOW OR TO SHARE YOUR VIEWS OR CONTACT US, PLEASE VISIT THE CHANNEL 8 WEB SITE AT www.kaet.asu.edu. CLICK ON "HORIZON" ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE SCREEN AND FOLLOW THE LINKS. JOIN US ON MONDAY AS WE UPDATE YOU ON THE LATEST FROM THE SCHOOL FACILITIES BOARD INCLUDING THAT EFFORT TO DEAL WITH THE COST OVERRUN ON HOOKING UP ARIZONA SCHOOLS TO THE INTERNET. TUESDAY, WE'LL TELL YOU ABOUT THE NEW BILL SIGNED INTO LAW AND ABOUT SOME THAT WERE VETOED. WEDNESDAY WE TAKE THE NIGHT OFF BUT WE'RE BACK THURSDAY WITH A LOOK AT WHO'S RUNNING FOR STATEWIDE OFFICES. THANKS FOR JOINING US ON A FRIDAY EDITION. I'M MICHAEL GRANT. HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND. GOOD NIGHT.