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Transcripts

May 2, 2002

Host: Michael Grant
Topic: The Tourism and Sports Authority and the latest on the Cardinal stadium; ASU Professor Brooks D. Simpson's involvement with the PBS special American Experience "Ulysses S. Grant"; Taliesen West
In-Studio Guests:
Tourism and Sports Authority board member Roc Arnett and Mesa City Councilman Mike Whalen; Taliesin West's new director Jim Goulca

>> Michael: Tonight on "Horizon," the Tourism and Sports Authority voted this week to put the Cardinal stadium in Mesa but it's not over yet. We'll talk to a board member and Mesa councilman about that. An ASU professor takes part in a PBS film about Ulysses S. Grant. He will tell us more about his experience. Frank Lloyd Wright's Taliesin West has a new leader. You will get to meet him. This month is museum month. "Horizon" takes you a video tour of one Valley museum. I'm Michael Grant. It was, as Yogi Berra would say, like deja vu all over again. The Tourism and Sports Authority voting this week to put the Cardinal stadium in Mesa, that coming almost 14 long torturous months after they first voted to put the stadium in Tempe. We will talk to a TSA board member and a city councilman who fought the hardest to put the stadium in Mesa, but first Mike Sauceda tells us more about the vote.

>> Jim Grogan: This is the 34th meeting of this volunteer board. Appreciate everyone being here early in the morning. It's a very exciting day for our community.

>> Reporter Sauceda: The start of the Tourism and Sports Authority Board meeting Tuesday where once again a site for a Cardinal stadium was approved.

>> Jim: We have a motion. It's been seconded. We've had full discussion. All in favor.

>> All: Aye.

>> Jim: Any opposed? Thanks. Hearing none, the motion unanimously passes. Congratulations to all the citizens our entire community but particularly to the citizens of Mesa.

>> Reporter Sauceda: The night before the TSA meeting, the Mesa City Council approved the stadium on its end.

>> Keno Hawker: I have a motion by council member Whalen, seconded by council member Pomeroy for approval of item of 4A. I think everyone has had an opportunity to speak. Why don't you please vote. The vote is 6 ayes and vice~mayor Davidson is absent. So the item 4A passes.

>> Reporter Sauceda: But before Mesa took its vote it worked out a deal with the TSA that will make the stadium revenue neutral with enough tax and parking revenue coming in to offset Mesa's $38.5 million investment. The TSA also imposed a .55% tax on tickets and items sold at the stadium to help Mesa make up an $8.5 million shortfall. However, despite all the wrangling, this is not a done deal. A neighborhood group called SAS, Stand Against the Stadium, has started a referendum drive to get over 4,000 signatures in 30 days that would put the Mesa City Council's vote on the ballot.

>> Tom Jacobson: How would you like to have this stadium sit in front right across the street from where you live? You wouldn't like it, 200 some feet in the air. They have a beautiful park down there. It's a free park, has fishing, golf, baseball for kids, and then on game day, what are they going to do, if they want to go out and come back, they got to pay for parking to go to their own house.

>> Michael Bidwell: We're hopeful that people will understand this is a terrific plan, it's cost-free to the City of Mesa, it's going to have a tremendous economic impact, there are going to be tremendous sporting and cultural events that will occur there. From the neighborhood standpoint, there's a lot of neighborhood mitigation and the park is remaining intact. So all those things that are good for the neighborhoods will remain there and we're hoping the citizens of Mesa understand all the positives that will come from the site.

>> Reporter Sauceda: However, at Monday's city council meeting it was clear that those from the neighborhood were ready for a fight.

>> Leo Mahoney: I feel that I'm wasting my time, but I also felt that if I have to look at myself in the mirror tomorrow, I need to get up here and say what I think because I think the votes are already decided tonight and I think you'd all agree to that. Twice the City of Mesa citizens have voted no on the stadium.

>> Elizabeth Menchaca: You vote tonight for the stadium, you know you will ignite a referendum. You are in someways hoping that the neighbors will make this vote necessary. What you are actually doing is pushing on our backs the issue for the next five months that will take our time and will create a financial burden as we try to fight without your support against a heavily financed professional sports lobby. We the citizens will be degraded as not being intelligent enough to see that we are getting this facility for free and that we are a bunch of NMBY winers when we are actually hard working tax paying voters. Thank you. [ APPLAUSE ]

>> Michael: Here now to talk about the stadium is TSA board member Roc Arnett and Mesa City Councilman Mike Whalen. Gentlemen, welcome to you both. Mike, you feel like you've wrapped up a marathon?

>> Mike Whalen: Well, I finished one marathon, but I may have a mile or two left to go in the second leg.

>> Michael: There are two groups circulating referenda petition in Mesa? >> Mike Whalen:: Yes, sir. As of Tuesday morning our clerk's office has advised that the stand against the stadium group, which is the neighborhood opposition group, and then another group called no bucks forbid will have picked up petition packets and it's our understanding they're on the streets now.

>> Michael: Those are two fairly different groups, are they not? I think as the name of the second one gives the impression, there's the one neighborhood group, the people surrounding the stadium and there's just another group that does not like the concept of a publicly financed stadium, correct?

>> Mike Whalen: That's correct.

>> Michael: Roc, where is the TSA on this issue? It's probably going to face a referendum. The TSA feels strongly that it should not?

>> Roc Arnett: It is our judgment that everybody would be better off if we did not face a referendum. If it goes to referendum, very likely Mesa will lose. If you sign the petition, it's perhaps signing a death Nell and some of the anti-- against the stadium, that's what they want to have happen. But the real world is that the TSA, to answer your question, wants this to be built in Mesa, we worked very hard, the TSA staff, Ted Ferris and his team, worked extremely hard to meet the bar that keno Hawker set and make it so that, in fact, it would be revenue neutral to the City of Mesa, and that's been done, and it is a very good project and win-win for all the parties involved.

>> Michael: Mike, what are the financial aspects of this thing from the City of Mesa's standpoint? The City of Mesa says that it is revenue neutral. Now does that work?

>> Mike Whalen: We have done a projection, a very conservative one, that average attendance would be 48,000 people at Cardinal events, including the Fiesta Bowl, which are really low numbers and we were purposely conservative to make sure that the revenues that we receive from sales tax on construction, sales tax on game day events and parking revenues would be in such a manner that we could guarantee that our bottom line was met as far as expenses. Our cost of the infrastructure is $38.5 million to put all the infrastructure in that the host sites are required to do. Our revenue projection on 48,000 is 38.5. So virtually if we have one person over 48,000 per game -- the major projections are that 60,000 people will show up for events, and 70,000 for the Fiesta Bowl. So we will start making money on anything over 48,000. The real protection for the citizens is the TSA has guaranteed our debt. Fit falls below 48,000, they will pick up our debt service. So truly this is -- the most incredible deal for any city anywhere in the country to host a facility like this at no cost and a guaranteed no cost.

>> Michael: And the TSA also stepped forward with this .55 user imposition?

>> Roc Arnett: It's a user overlay of all the tickets and soda and beer and all things that are sold at the park -- parking -- that's sold on the site. But realistically we think, the TSA thinks, that Mesa was very conservative and so therefore we're willing to put this on top and reimburse, and, then, of course, when that is all paid for, that basically goes away.

>> Michael: Incidentally, where is the TSA in relation to the basic construction costs of the facility? Because, Roc, as you know we were assured quite confidently, I guess it was February of last year, that if this thing wasn't ground broken and under way the general contractor couldn't assure that it would be built for, and my memory is shaky here, I want to say $318 million, which is the public funding cap.

>> Roc Arnett: Well, basically three -- anywhere from 330 to 350 million is kind of the considered number. We're doing a tremendous number of things with hunt and others that are helping us take a look at those. What do we really need, what's essential, what makes the project work? When we first started this project, we realized that when the stadium field rolled out we didn't have infrastructure in the floor to have a multi-purpose facility event. So we had to plug all those in. There are some additional costs that we have uncovered. But there are some costs that we think perhaps that we can cut out, and the jury is still out on exactly what the cost is going to be. It can't go because of bonding and some other issues more than about $350 million, $355 million.

>> Michael: I was just going to ask you. Is the TSA committed or beholden not to exceeding a certain amount? My recall is that it's around $330 million on construction costs.

>> Roc Arnett: Realistically the real world is that we have to keep our costs within a certain level, near that number, 350 -- 330 to 350, in that area. We have some constraints as to bonding limits. You know, we will put in our amount and the Cardinals will put in their amount and the Fiesta Bowl will be putting in some amounts and we can't go over a certain amount and so it's a very tight budget. I'm sure there's going to be -- the team that's doing the actual building is going to spend many, many hours slashing and cutting and getting it so it will work.

>> Michael: Mike, what about the residents' concern in the immediate area? Respond to that.

>> Mike Whalen: Michael, the site is surrounded on three sides by freeway and vacant properties at this point. Those properties will be developed as part of our proposal into a very nice retail atmosphere with multi-family housing, office park. The neighborhood that is currently in place is about 8,000 homes directly to the south. They're about a half mile away from the stadium site just south of 8th Street. What we've done to offer some mitigation for the residents is guaranteed them, first of all, that we'll build a new roadway a Rio Salado parkway that will come off 8th Street and dissect the center of the golf course area, go past the multi-purpose facility and then proceed out to the east to Alma School road. So no traffic would be on 8th Street during game-day operations. We've also agreed to berming along the golf course properties where the parking will be. The complete retention of river view park to where that will be a park-like atmosphere wrapping up and around the facility. The TSA has agreed to put in a million dollars towards building youth athletic fields and we will use those for parking on 11 day as year but the rest of the time this $3 million facility will be available for the kids in the neighborhood. Plus the fact we've agreed to neighborhood parking control, barricading, all those things to try to be a good neighbor to the folks to the south.

>> Roc Arnett: We would hope that energy would be spent with the neighbors to come forward and let's all work together, the TSA with the city, with the neighbors, and build a project that would be very beneficial to that immediate neighborhood. For example, one of the thoughts that has come forward is the opportunity for us to build a community room in the TSA building that could be used for community venues and activities nongame day.

>> Michael: So, for example, Boy Scout meetings --

>> Roc Arnett: Boy Scout meetings, church meeting of some kind, voting places. There's a number of neighborhood card parties. There are a number of things that could take place and I think if that the energies would be spent from the neighborhoods to help us, we would like to meet with them to help make that happen.

>> Michael: They have to collect the signatures in 30 days?

>> Mike Whalen: 30 days from the 29th, which would be -- with the Memorial Day weekend, probably about June 1st, I would say, with the holiday in place would be the end day date.

>> Michael: At that point in time the Mesa city council will have to make a decision, assuming that 4,000-plus valid signatures are collected, Mesa city council would have to make a decision on when to schedule a vote? >> Mike Whalen: One issue that is in our contract with the TSA is they have an option to walk away from our proposal at that point if the signatures are collected. So virtually it's up to the TSA first to determine whether they want to stay with us in the process or whether they just walk away from the Mesa site.

>> Michael: Mike Whalen, thank you very much for joining us. Roc Arnett good to see you.

>> Michael: He's on the $50 bill and most know him as a Civil War hero and president, but what else do you know about Ulysses S. Grant? You can learn more by watching Channel 8 the next couple Sundays as we air the "American Experience" documentary film "Ulysses S. Grant." Featured in that two-part series is Arizona State University history professor Dr. Brooks Simpson. Simpson is author of the book "Let Us Have Peace, Ulysses S. Grant and the Politics of War and Reconstruction 1861 to 1868." We will talk to Dr. Simpson but first here is a clip from the film "Ulysses S. Grant."

>> Narrator: Just before the Civil War, he had been a struggling clerk in his father's leather shop in Galena selling brushes and straps. Now he was being photographed in the round. At 24 different angles so appear sculptor could preserve his perfect likeness in stone. He said very little. He was a hard man to read.

>> Narrator: You could never tell when you looked at him whether it was a man of unfathomable depths or a simple minded fellow who had no deep thoughts on his mind.

>> Brooks D Simpson: No one could quite explain what Ulysses S. Grant was about, the secrets of his success. How could such an ordinary man achieve such extraordinary feats?

>> Michael: Earlier today producer Mike Sauceda interviewed Dr. Simpson about his role in the "Ulysses S. Grant" film. Here now is the interview.

>> Reporter Sauceda: Dr. Simpson, thank you for coming on to "Horizon." First of all, who is Ulysses S. Grant?

>> Brooks D. Simpson: Ulysses S. Grant is the 18th president of the United States. He served from 1869 to 1877. He was also elevated the position of General and Chief of the Army to the United States during the American Civil War and led them to victory over the Confederacy.

>> Reporter Sauceda: Channel 8 will be running a film done by "American Experience" on his life. How in depth is this film? It's a two-part series.

>> Brooks D Simpson: The first part will deal with Grant's youth, his young adulthood, his troubled times in the 1850s, his struggles, it will also deal with his civil war career, his elevation from starting out the war as a Colonel in charge of an Illinois regiment and ending the war accepting the surrender of Robert E. Lee in the farmhouse. So it will trace grant's rise to fame and power. The second episode will deal -- will focus on grant's post war career, his presidency, how he wrestled with the problems of reconstruction, family problems, wrestling with the issues of fame and culminates in the story of his gallant race against cancer as he wrote his memoirs.

>> Reporter Sauceda: Do you think this film will give Americans a better understanding of who Grant was?

>> Brooks D. Simpson: Yes, I think that Grant is one of these people who is often misunderstood and sometimes rudely characterized in popular literature as a butcher on the battlefield, insensitive to the costs of human conflict, as a bumbling drunkard who simply stumbled into victory and fame. I think this is the presentation that will allow viewers to understand the real man, the man behind the face on the $50 bill so to speak, a fellow who was a very kind, compassionate, thoughtful individual who thought seriously about issues of racial equality, who struggled for them valiantly but unsuccessfully while president, a person who was very much dedicated to the notion of preserving the United States as one united republic and who did his best as he so -- as he could during a four years of bloody civil war.

>> Reporter Sauceda: Tell us about your role in this film.

>> Brooks D. Simpson: Well, as someone who has written extensively on Grant, I was drawn upon for several functions. First of all, I'm an on-air personality, you will hear me comment on various aspects of Grant's life. You'll also -- the script went through a review by me as well as a panel of other scholars and I've also conconsulted with other aspects of the production, including the website.

>> Reporter Sauceda: So they were very careful in presenting accurate --

>> Brooks D. Simpson: They tried their best, although Grant that comes across presentation is really their story of Ulysses S. Grant. We have been drawn upon as scholars, biographers, historians to lend our expertise but this is their production and it's Grant that they want to display to the American public a Grant that I think is a richer, deeper, more understandable and certainly more historically accurate Grant and it's one with which I'm comfortable.

>> Michael: It's the international headquarters for the Frank Lloyd Wright foundation. Since the 1930s Taliesin West has provided the Valley with a real link to the great architect and now Taliesin West has a new director. Here to tell us more about his new role is Jim Goulca. Jim, welcome to the Valley.

>> Jim Goulca: Mike, it's great to be here. Thank you.

>> Michael: You are telling me that Taliesin West is one of the ten most important buildings in the country. Why?

>> Jim: It is, because it's -- it's a special kind of architecture. It's about living here. Frank Lloyd Wright came and used the materials on the mountain to build the buildings. It's concrete and it's stones. You can hardly tell at a distance where the building is and where the land is. And that's part of the whole philosophy. It was revolutionary in its time. There was nothing else that looked like it and even today, you come up and there is nothing else that looks like it. So it's a truly special place to be.

>> Michael: I think -- well, a lot of us in the Valley are aware of it, but -- including myself -- have never been there. Why do you think its profile is so low given its significance.

>> Jim: I think it's a combination of several things. Part is it sits in the middle of a large chunk of undeveloped land. We have almost 600 acres of natural desert and the building sits in the middle of it. And over time there were a variety of ways that people thought about the place, and it was focussed on itself for a number of years, but in recent times we've had 130,000 visitors that come up to walk around, learn about the place. It seems, though, that most of them are people from somewhere else. So we have an issue that we're addressing now of communicating to people all through the Valley that this is an important place. It is between the two coasts -- certainly between California and Chicago the single most important architectural structure in the United States and you get people from all over the world coming to see it. We want more people from here coming to see it, too.

>> Michael: What happens at Taliesin West? Aside from the fact that you have 130,000 visitors. What happens --

>> Jim: We have a lot of things going on. It is a set of buildings that are an architectural monument. We have Taliesin architects and an architectural firm practicing today that is the successor to Frank Lloyd Wright. They have been practicing here, headquartered here since 1959 and we have an accredited little college. We have an accredited bachelor's degree program and a master's degree program teaching architects in the ideas of Frank Lloyd Wright and they're taking those ideas all around the world, and then we have concerts and a variety of artistic events that occur and people come. Mass ensemble was there a week ago, a group that came from Chicago and performs all around the world.

>> Michael: So what are you doing to raise the -- well, you're obviously on this show.

>> Jim: I'm here. With a better place to come than this.

>> Michael: But what else are you doing to raise the profile of Taliesin?

>> Jim: We have a number of things going on. We're working with the Peterson group to put together at the promenade development a spire going up, a 125-foot Frank Lloyd Wright designed spire. It was originally his design for the Arizona State House. That's going one a visitor center to nibble enable people to understand more about Wright from a different location. That will help direct people up. We have a program for kids, educational outreach that goes into the schools, some -- another way of coming out to a variety of people. So we're reaching out in a lot of different ways so people all over the Valley understand that this is something that's part of their heritage, an important cultural monument.

>> Michael: Jim Golca, thank you very much for joining us. Thanks for moving from Chicago. Hope you enjoy the state.

>> Jim: This is great.

>> Michael: They enrich our lives with art, history and science. They are museums, and May is museum month. During May you can get two for discounts at Robinsons-May retail outlets which is offering the discounts in conjunction with the central Arizona museum association. Here is a look at what one Valley museum has to offer.

>> Jessie Evans: The thing people love so much about this museum and why once they come and find us they keep coming back is it's a friendly, warm, open place with lots to do and just -- it's almost a family attitude.

>> Reporter Sauceda: The West Valley arts museum in surprise more than just a showcase for art.

>> Jessie Evans: We have lectures, artists giving demonstrations, musicians, a little bit of theater.

>> Reporter Sauceda: The West Valley arts museum was established in the '80s to fill a cultural void in that part of the Metro area. A small staff and legion of volunteers run it.

>> Jessie Evans: Actually the museum started with a dedicated volunteers in the West Valley. They got together as a group and literally wanted to bring art to the West Valley, put paintings in store fronts at the beginning because they didn't have a building. Then in 1980 they incorporated and in 1985 they broke ground for what is now the West Valley art museum, which is where we are today. And that is at 114th Avenue and Bell Road in surprise. Now, in our honor, 114th Avenue has been renamed Avenue of the arts.

>> Reporter Sauceda: The 18,000-square-foot museum boasts five galleries with lots of traditional art but offers a wide pallet of things to do and see. While at the museum you might see an artist at work, you can buy something from the gift shop or consignment sale and there's even a restaurant open for lunch Tuesday through Fridays. Evans says the museum is worth the drive.

>> Jessie Evans: The reason people come here is because we have so many diverse activities. We have the music. We have the theater. We have weekly events. We have the art. We have lectures. We have everything. And it's worth a trip.

>> Reporter Sauceda: Because the museum uses lots of local artists, there's also the opportunity to meet the people whose work is on display. The museum is funded by private and corporate donations, and a yearly membership is available at a very low cost. Evans says although the museum is on the west side, it's for the entire Valley.

>> Jessie Evans: We hope everyone will come out and visit us, fall in love with us, and join the museum and become participants in many, many ways.

>> Michael: Please join us tomorrow on "Horizon" as journalists talk more about the stadium vote. President Clinton's visit to the Valley. And a host of other subjects on the Friday edition of "Horizon." Thank you very much for joining us on this Thursday evening. I'm Michael Grant. Have a good one. Good night.

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